@Blaine Jungwirth http://youtu.be/gUhRKVIjJtw

 @christopher_m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXRExocnpUw

though i might go here instead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhwwCWkmYoc

hahaha it is just so perfectly soul baring.

 @Blaine Jungwirth Man, I jus wanna tear it up!

 @Blaine Jungwirth  that should get about 11 likes.

 @christopher_m  @Tony K. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIIxlgcuQRU

 @Blaine Jungwirth  @Tony K. probably a little ott http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wigqKfLWjvM

 @Tony K.  @christopher_m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYIW6MTigGQ

 @Tony K.  @christopher_m i got your 90s/2000s sensations right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DksSPZTZES0

 @jakesnake99 YES!!!!!!!

http://youtu.be/-nVgKyyKeW4

 @Blaine Jungwirth  @christopher_m GWEN STEFANI!

 @Tony K.  "Goodbye to You" would have been the right call here.

 @Tony K.  @christopher_m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR3Vdo5etCQ

 @christopher_m That's a challenge.

It's AK "Guilty Pleasure!" time.

http://youtu.be/5WAiMmSQLFs

 @Tony K. we can get to sappy in a minute, but really it is all about scandinavia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcNo07Xp8aQ

 @Tony K.  @Dan_tm date 4 was a big enough step from date 3 that my feeling is that if she was looking for someone more forward there wouldn't have been a date 4.

 @Dan_tm  @jakesnake99 Perhaps, but him maybe not be forward enough could've killed the mood at a point on the fourth date.

 @jakesnake99 I don't think your not sexing her on any particular date played a role.

 @jakesnake99 I'm just as bad, albeit in a different way.

So no worries.

I'm really bad at this stuff, man!

 @jakesnake99 Hell, it was her place.

Not your place, but hers!

 @jakesnake99 Should've done whatever you could to have sealed the deal on date 4.

Had your forward advances failed, that'd've been your answer then.

 @Dan_tm there was no such understanding.  Its entirely possible she was seeing someone else the whole time.  In my mind, date 4 got far enough that I felt confident I had 'won' if you will, but given what happened it seems likely I was incorrect there.

 @Tony K. date 1 was coffee, ended with a hug.  date 2 was a hike, some holding hands, kiss on the cheek at the end.  date 3 was dinner, didn't get further than a short goodnight kiss as she had limited time.  date 4 she invited me to her place for dinner, then we made a fire outside at her place. 

 @jakesnake99 Regarding looking immediately, was there an understanding that you two weren't seeing other people? A lot of people, especially with internet dating, it seems, don't seek exclusivity until a relationship gets serious. 

 @jakesnake99 What did date 3 involve? It clearly got to the point of making out, but stopped before anything more ...

What did the date itself entail? Dinner at home? A movie? Some sort of mutual experience -- such as a baseball game or movie -- before going to her place.

And yes, I assume you went to her place due to mentioning that she once had a nice joint before moving to a co-op.

I was going slow, like always, but date 4 was still a big step from date 3 in terms of how far it went.  I didn't really see the opportunity- or need- to push it further.  Obviously, the 10 days out of state immediately after that was less than ideal, but in this particular case, I'm not convinced that's what killed it.  Given that she's immediately out there looking though, its surely a possibility.

 @Dan_tm  @dj idoltime  @jakesnake99 True, it's a generalization.

That said, know who you're dating within the first date.

A coffee date is a great way to garner a feel for what a person's speed is going forward.

 @Tony K.  @dj idoltime  @jakesnake99 I think there is far to much variation across different people to make generalizations like that.

 @Tony K.  @dj idoltime  @jakesnake99  @Dan_tm Agree.

 @dj idoltime  @jakesnake99  @Dan_tm Yeah, physical attraction must happen damn near on the spot -- yes, the ladder theory -- while physical intimacy must happen within at least a month. Within two weeks in preferable, though.

 @Tony K.  @jakesnake99  @Dan_tm I strongly believe that the physical attraction part must come in early as well for things to work. 

 @jakesnake99  @Dan_tm Love how I can fix typos on PWE, while BE won't allow that.

I type fast, so occasionally I fuck up with the spellings of words.

@jakesnake99@Dan_tm

Yeah, the 3rd date rule isn't a live-and-die type thing. Four dates work, too, especially if it's coffee first, dinner second, something fun and simple third -- which should be a mutual interest thing -- and a cooked dinner/DVD at someone's house for the 4th date.

I do think some physical attraction must happen in most relationships within that first month period, though. Otherwise, it's a slow burn and many people -- including most women these days -- aren't down for that wait-and-see approach.

 @Tony K.  @Dan_tm I am aware of the 3rd date rule, but am not at all comfortable going that fast especially when the first date is just coffee.  This girl seemed to be pretty patient with me through the 4th date, but it is a possibility.

 @jakesnake99  @Dan_tm Also, the 15 day separation between date #4 -- which usually past the sexy time date that is #3 -- and date #5 explains why you think she may already be with someone else already.

 @jakesnake99  @Dan_tm Don't have to give her credit, but the best thing to do is let it go emotionally.

 @Tony K.  @Dan_tm do I now have to give her credit for having the intention to break up face to face instead of accusing her of lameness for chickening out?  That would suck.

 @jakesnake99 But it does make the 'date' with the intent to break up, followed by the email, even more confusing. That's probably the part that would keep me awake.

 @Dan_tm  @jakesnake99 Yeah, an e-mail, text, or phone call would suffice.

 @Dan_tm yeah, I suppose not.

 @jakesnake99 That's not a long relationship. I'm not sure protocol even demands an in-person break up. 

 @Dan_tm we went on four dates in a 3 week span, then this was our next encounter, 15 days later.

 @jakesnake99  @Dan_tm Anyway, there's nothing wrong with slightly embellishing a story.

But yeah, she definitely wanted to end it and has moved on rather quickly. Not much can be done about that, except to grimace and bear it.

 @jakesnake99 How long had you guys been dating? How often were you seeing her?

 @jakesnake99  @Dan_tm Oh, shit.

Sorry, even I'm getting confused at this point. My bad.

But yeah, you're right that she intended to do it in person.

 @Tony K.  @Dan_tm what?  I'm back in the Bay Area now, as planned.  She lives like 2 miles from me.